Hello, Tyren, and welcome back! This week, we thought to extend your Still In Touch into a full page as we delve deep into your time at Orlando Pirates and some of the interesting experiences you had there. To start things off, there was a story you were sharing in last week's edition, only for space to get the better of us. So, turning out for the Buccaneers, you were off to play a night game away against Manning Rangers and your roommate was Jimmy Tau. Take it away!
I think we were supposed to be in the bus by 18h00, leaving for the stadium. So, I was in the room preparing to be in the bus by 18h00. Then, around 17h30, Jimmy said, "No, you must go to Room what-what, you must go take a bath there and then you go to the bus." I said, "No, man, it's fine, I'm going to bath in our room and then I'm going to go to the bus." At the time, I didn't know why he said I should go to that particular room to bath and then we can go to the bus. So, he left 15 minutes earlier. I still showered in our room and then I went through to the bus. At around 17h50 when I get into the bus, I see everybody is in the bus already. I'm the last one! I'm thinking to myself, "No, man, I can't be late because it's 17h50 and we're supposed to be in the bus at 18h00." The team manager at the time was Phil Setshedi, so as I walked into the bus, he came to me and said, "Come, let's go to this room because you must go and wash there." I said, "No, Mr Manager, I already took a shower in my own room." Because I didn't know what he was talking about, ha, ha, ha. He said, "No, man, come, let's go there quickly." So, I went with him to this room and, as I walked into the room, I saw that my jersey was the only jersey that was still lying on the bed. Then I looked into the bathroom, there's this one guy in the bathroom, and there's water there, dirty water. He then tells me, "No, you must go bath." I say, "No, man. I don't know about these things and I didn't come here for these things, so please respect me. If this is what you do and believe in, I'll respect you for doing these things and believing in these things, but please, don't expect me to just do stuff I'm not used to and I don't know anything about." You know, we were still arguing and arguing and arguing, so eventually he said that, "Okay, maybe not today, maybe next time." I said, "No, it's fine, but don't expect me to do stuff I don't know about." Then they gave me my jersey, so I took my jersey and went through to the bus. When I went to the stadium and put the jersey on, the jersey was heavy hey. And it was a little bit wet. So, I don't know what they did to the jersey, but the jersey was heavy and wet. But only afterwards when I started playing, I realised what they were doing and stuff like that. For me, the main thing was, I said, "It's fine, I don't mind if you want to do that, just respect me and I will respect you." You know, even the players used to understand this is who I am, so don't expect me to do these things.
Talk about standing your ground.
So, ja, it was an eye-opener. In the beginning, I wouldn't say it was tough for me because I'm a strong believer in what I want and what I believe in. Also, it can be difficult because I realised that some players don't want to do it, but they had to do it because maybe they felt if they didn't do it, they were not going to play. But I had confidence in myself and my own ability, and also, before I joined Pirates, I was already playing in the national team, so for me it was easier maybe to say, "No, I'm not going to do it." Sometimes when the younger players saw me not doing it and I asked them, "Why are you doing it? Do you believe in these things?", they would say no, they didn't believe in it, but they did it because they feared if they were not going to do it, they might not play. Teams might victimize them if they didn't do it. So, I could totally understand why some of the younger players did it even if they didn't believe in it. But like I said, you know, for me, it was a case of, "Please respect me and I will respect you with whatever you do. I don't have a problem with that. If you wanna do whatever you do, that's fine, but please just leave me out of whatever you want to do. Don't expect me to do something that I don't want to do." Because one day we went to go and play in Eswatini. I think it was about 23h00, and they came knocking and said, "Come, come, guys, we must go!" We asked, "Where are we going?" and the answer was: "No, no, just come, come, come!" Most of us were still in pyjamas. We took a bus drive… I don't know where, maybe between the farms. It was like 20 minutes away where we were going. We went up this road in one of the farms there. So, now, we can't see because it's dark. We got off the bus and someone said, "No, we need to go down, there's a river there."
Geez!
I said, "Hayi, hayi, hayi (No, no, no)." Eleven o'clock at night, you can't even see, and the bushes are quite high and you need to walk. I sat in the bus, and I said, "Me, I'm not going." Everybody went, then they came back. I could see the guys were wet and shivering because obviously they went to go bath. Even Onyekachi Okonkwo was fighting, asking, "But why is this one not going?" I said, "Don't worry, you must go if you want." He said, "No, no, no. If you're not going, I'm also not going." I said, "No, my friend, I've got my own reasons. If you want to go, go." He said, "No, no, no, me, I'm not going. What if there's crocodiles there in the bushes? We can't see, it's too dark." So, he also didn't go. They were fighting with him because with me, like I said… I won't say I had an understanding, but they respected my wishes. I'm telling you, about muti and stuff, we can talk the whole day.
However, the risk of being singled out as a 'traitor' by your teammates, especially after a loss, was real. After all, there's no 'i' in the word 'team'. Didn't that thought visit your mind?
I think, you know, again, I could see at times there were some guys that… There were a few guys I was close to in the team, and I explained to them and they could see that I'm Muslim, but I could see that there were maybe one or two guys, especially those that strongly believed in muti, wherever we used to go, I would go with but not participate, and they would look at me (in a funny way). But I think what helped me is that in the beginning, when I joined Pirates, in the first five, six, seven games, I scored about five, six goals and the team was winning and we were doing well. So, me scoring goals even without using muti and the team winning even without me using muti, I think that helped me a lot in terms of them accepting that the team is playing well and winning and I don't use muti. It would have been different maybe, like you said, if the team was losing, now they've got someone to blame, saying, "No, it's Tyren, he's not using muti. That's why the team is losing." But even without me using muti, you know, we still won. I'm not sure if it was the first year or the second year when we went, I think, 17 or 18 games unbeaten. I think that's the record that (Mamelodi) Sundowns bettered some other time, but for a while we held that record. So, I think that most probably helped me, for the guys to understand, "No, it's okay. Even if this guy is not using muti, at least we are winning and we are scoring goals. It's fine, let's not make a big fuss about it."
For sure. So, do you think there were any benefits that one could take out of these Special Projects?
Ag, you know, sometimes the mind is a powerful thing. Like the story you told me earlier on about Fanyana Dhladhla, about him saying he went to the muti man and because he went there he started scoring so he was going to go again. So, if you believe in something, no matter what it is, and in your mind you tell yourself, "No, this is the reason why I'm doing this", then it can work for you! That's why I said I believed in what I was doing when I was growing up, you know, being a Christian, believing in God, and that helped me. So, to use muti to win a game is something totally different from my belief, but if you've been using muti all this time and it's helping you, which means your mind strongly believes in it, maybe it helps you in a way to believe. It's only your belief in something that can help you. If you don't believe in something, then it's not gonna help you. So, again, like I said, I respect people that use muti to help them because that's what they believe. But on the other hand, I'm thinking to myself… I mean, there's so many stories even, you know, about a lot of African countries or teams using muti. If muti was helping us, I'm sure by now one of these African countries would have won the World Cup. Even South Africa is using muti.
Well, funny you say that because Jomo, who's had a lot of muti stories shared about on this page, was the Bafana Bafana coach at the 2002 World Cup in Korea Japan…
Ja! On the other hand, a story that I would also hear is that no, people use muti to protect themselves from the people that use muti to harm them. Sometimes when we were talking about these things, the guys would say no, people would use muti against you, maybe to hurt you or to harm you. Other guys would say, "No, the reason why I'm using muti is to protect myself from other people who are wanting to hurt me." Again, I say if you believe in it and you believe that it will work for you, then it's fine. But like I said, for me personally, I don't think it's working because I don't believe in it. Those ones that believe in it, obviously they would say it's working for them.
We understand these rituals also formed part of Soweto Derby preparations… at both clubs actually. Was that the case, in your time?
You know, whenever it was the derby… normally, when the guys use muti, it's just (on) the day of the game that they would do something. But when it's the derby, they start using muti or they need to go bath from the Monday in the build-up to the Saturday or Sunday game. So, when it's derby on a Saturday, then Monday after heavy training, the guys have to go and wash in the bath. It was hectic. We used to train at Johannesburg Stadium. We had Kosta Papic as our coach, with Moma Medic as his assistant. Like I told you the last time, I was the only one that didn't use muti. So, after one training session during derby week, I changed (from training gear to normal clothing). I don't know if you've been there, but you need to take a lift up to the first floor if you need to go out. Now I'm walking and standing by the lift, I'm waiting for the lift to open. I'm standing next to Papic and Moma. Just before the lift opened, the muti man came there and now he was calling the two of them because they were supposed to go there and bath. And as he's calling the two of them, they are asking me, "Are you not coming?" Then the muti man told them, "No, don't worry about that one, just the two of you, you must come."
Ha, ha, ha, hilarious!
Like I told you earlier, I already had the understanding with the guys that I'm not using it, so that's why they didn't bother with me. So now as they were walking away, they were looking at me and asking, "But why is this one not coming?" The muti man said, "No, don't worry about that one, you two, come." I just got into the lift and went up. But that whole week in the build-up to the derby, I think you can, sort of, feel it. At the time, I stayed in Ormonde, which was basically close to FNB Stadium, and you know, you could feel the excitement and the vibe throughout the week. I think on the Saturday morning before the game, it's even worse. I mean, I stayed next to… what is that road that passes the stadium?
Nasrec Road it must be.
I was close by there. Early morning on a Saturday when it was derby day, you could even hear the people walking to the stadium, with their vuvuzelas. I think that made it just so much more exciting. It's almost like what they normally say, that the whole of South Africa stands still when it's the derby. Obviously, when you went to the stadium, you could see it that no, it's going to be a massive game. My first derby, I was quite surprised when it happened. Not surprised, in a way. So, we were sitting in the dressing room and Phil Setshedi was still the (team) manager. He came in with his phone and, as the guys were sitting, he was giving the phone to everyone. You would talk on the phone and then pass it on to the next one. When the phone got to me, I realised that it was Dr Irvin Khoza on the other side of the line. So, he spoke to everybody that day on the phone. Obviously, when I took the phone, I told him, "Mr Chairman, it's Tyren." He obviously knew it was my first derby, so he said, "I know it's your first derby." He, sort of, just basically encouraged me to go out there and give my best to the team and play well. So, for me, that was obviously something special, the chairman phoning me before my first derby.
Truly special.
But like I said, he basically spoke to the whole team on the phone because I think he couldn't make it to that game. But they normally said he never used to come to games. He said, "No, don't worry, you'll never see me at the games, but I'll be there somewhere." I don't know if he was always hiding or he never wanted to be seen at the games or whatever, but we never used to see him at games, and I think that's why he phoned to encourage the guys, which was something special. But ja, the derby is something that… I don't know how I can explain it. I've played in the Cape Town Derby, which is also special because it's in my hometown. I played in the Tshwane Derby, (Mamelodi) Sundowns against SuperSport (United), but nothing comes close to the Soweto Derby. It's a massive, massive game. And it's so much sweeter when you win. If you lose, it's not so good.
Let's finish things off next week.
Cheers!
Okay, cool.
