The transition from player to assistant coach at Jomo Cosmos must have taken some getting used to, because you were now basically coaching guys that you were calling teammates not long prior. Tell us about that period in your football life…
No, bhuti (brother), let me tell you something. You know, before I went overseas, I became captain. After I came back, Jomo (Sono) decided to make me captain for quite a while before I retired. Having a relationship with the guys was key and even today the guys still call me captain. You meet a guy like Jabulani Mendu, who was another character, as well as Macdonald Mukansi. Do you know what Jomo used to call these two guys? He called them George Bizos, the one who was (Nelson) Mandela's lawyer. That's because they were talking too much, ha, ha, ha. Whenever Jomo selected two teams to play against each other and the two were in different teams, you would think they were the referees because they would go on and on. There was no way you were going to rob their respective teams because they would stand up for their teammates, which is why Jomo saw it fit to say, "Yho! Niphethe abo (You've got the likes of) George Bizos in both your teams."
Ha, ha, ha.
But the transition itself, you know when you are leading people on the field and now you are off the field, it's not that difficult because these people are the same people that were easily taking instructions from you. It's just like in the case of Jomo as a businessman – there were times when you found that he was not part of the training session on particular days, and he would make a call to say, "Collen, I'm not coming. Please do one, two, three, four, five." You would then pass on the instructions to the guys, to say, "Guys, this is what's going to happen." Mind you, back then Cosmos didn't have an assistant coach. When I started to become an assistant coach, it was not that difficult. Yes, you will find resistance from one or two (players), but one thing's for sure, you are going to make a team no (with) Jomo and you know ukuthi (that) if people are not taking instructions, nawe you have an influence when Jomo asks, "What do you think we should do? Who should we put in?" So, all those people that need favours from you … not favours in the form of bribing you … know that they need to work hard. It was, at first, for me… eish, I'm a coach, no longer a player. Okay, fine, but these are the same players, nothing has changed. Players who come from other teams already know that this is a coach now, no longer a player.
Seems like yours was a forced retirement.
I retired after we played that (Coca Cola Cup) final against Kaizer Chiefs in 2002 if I'm not mistaken, where Jabu Pule (now Mahlangu) was running rings around us that we even had to add another player to have five at the back. Hilton Jordaan was doing very well. That was my last game. I was wearing the team tracksuit, sitting in front of him (Jomo), ready to come inside the field, and then he said, "Ndoda (Man), let's talk." Yes, I also had a plan that next season I'm not going to be wearing Cosmos' jersey. I didn't say I wanted to retire, he decided that manje (now) enough is enough. He said, "I want you to help me." Maybe he saw potential, like I was saying, and thought that when he was not around and taking care of his businesses, there would be someone filling in for him. In actual fact, Lebogang Morula, who had become an assistant coach, left, so I started to work with Jomo from then on.
Didn't you almost leave for a big team at one stage though?
You know, Lunga, till today a lot of people still ask me which team I was supporting. I was a Kaizer Chiefs supporter and Jomo doesn't know the story because I've never mentioned it. When I came back from Ireland, Chiefs tried to sign me. Fortunately enough, the offices of Cosmos and those of Chiefs were facing each other. Chiefs' offices were situated at… what street is this? (Starts thinking) Hmmm, next to Small Street, I think it's Albertina Sisulu Street now in Jozi, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know who approached my mother and who told her that I was coming back from Ireland. When I arrived back, I was called to the office… it was Screamer Tshabalala and Kaizer Motaung. Mina ngimangele (I'm taken by surprise), all of a sudden I'm going to Chiefs. And I think at the time Hendrick Gondwe had moved to Chiefs and he got injured, so they needed to fill that gap. So, when I got there in the boardroom, it was Kaizer, (Louis) Tshakoane, Screamer and omuny' ubaba (another old man) whose name I don't really know. He might have been Kaizer's friend or something, but he was smoking Snuff, ha, ha, ha. We sat and then they said they wanted me to play for Chiefs, blah, blah, blah. But the story is that they wanted me to go to Jomo and ask for a big salary raise. They said, "No, we'll pay you well, we'll give you so much money, go and tell Jomo that you want this much money." I think by then my monthly salary was R20 000 or so, and they knew Jomo would refuse to give me a big increment. I said to Screamer, "Eish, Bra Screamer, I'll do that, but you guys…" Remember during our time agents were not there for the most part. We were representing ourselves. So, I'm trying to say to you I nearly played for Chiefs and I would have loved to play for them as they were my favourite team, but ke (then) God directed me to Cosmos. Because when I went to Jomo, I didn't say I wanted R20 000, I said, "I want a raise", and he said, "No problem." There was another old man there called Ndukuza (Majola, who was general manager), so Bra J said to him, "Bab' Ndukuza, give him a contract to sign, we'll pay him that money, no problem." That's how I didn't go back to Screamer and tell them, because Jomo gave me what I wanted.
Sure.
But I have no regrets at all because I enjoyed every minute of my stay at Cosmos. I mean, for example, we had ingwenya (the main man), Zinto Dube! So, I recall one time we were playing against (Orlando) Pirates in the Bob Save Super Bowl final at FNB Stadium. I think they beat us 1-0 with a goal from their super sub Andries Sebola, with an assist from Brandon Silent. Eish, they cheated us that day, man… that was a handball. Anyway, Zinto was on the bench that day. You see, Pirates fans used to sit on the other side at the old FNB Stadium, not the grandstand side. When Jomo was about to introduce him, he stood up and did the Pirates sign… that time he's playing for Cosmos, ha, ha, ha. Hey, uJomo azange wakwata kanje (I've never seen Jomo so upset). When we got to training on Monday, he told us, "Lo mfana ngiyamfaka (I put this boy in), he's doing the Pirates sign. So, how are we going to beat Pirates?" Zinto was a character, man. May his soul rest in peace.
There were such a lot of characters during your playing days, not just at Ezenkosi.
You're right. You go to Pirates, Jerry Sikhosana was a very close friend of mine. He was skilful. He could shoot from anywhere, he would dribble you. He was a nightmare for any defender. When you were going to face him… not only for me, but the likes of Brian Baloyi were also scared of him, they knew him. You know Jerry, he was aggressive as well. He didn't care whether you were going to kick him or what. Whenever we played Pirates, the two of us would go out after the game and do our own things with the gents. But you know some of the things you got up to, you can't speak about them now in case you open a can of worms, ha, ha, ha. However, I must say I remember there was a girl who was a football fan, and she loved Joseph Makhanya with all her heart. One day, we were going to play Pirates at Rand Stadium, but I was injured, so I was not going to take part in that match. I took that young girl with me to go and watch the game, and her excitement every time "Duku-Duku" touched the ball is something I'll never forget, ha, ha, ha.
It's been real, Collen! Ta.
Thank you so much, bhuti wam. I've always enjoyed reading Soccer Laduma from way back. This newspaper has that thing where you just stumble on a story that you never thought would make it to print. That's when you realise, "Oh, so these guys have been investigating this story for a while."
STILL IN TOUCH FUN FACTS
First paycheque: R1 500
Biggest bonus: R120 000
Opponent you respected the most: Pollen Ndlanya Jerry Sikhosana
Team you would have loved to play for: Kaizer Chiefs
Favourite PSL player right now: Themba Zwane
Best coach played under: Tshisa Nkambule Jomo Sono
Craziest request from a fan: Ladies asking me to hook them up with certain players
