'I Don't Know Who That Guy Is, Sorry!'
While it is normal for lines to get blurred when family and business intertwine, more so between husband and wife, the seamless partnership between Moira Tlhagale and Pitso Mosimane works both on and off the field thanks to the strict boundaries they have set when it comes to work. In Part 2 of our face-to-face interview with the soft-spoken business mogul, she opens up to Soccer Laduma's Delmain Faver on the dynamics of her professional relationship with the former Mamelodi Sundowns mentor while simultaneously fulfilling her duties as a wife and mother of the household. She also explains why they've had to tone down certain elements of the coach's strong personality, while hinting on the next move after Al Ahli Jeddah's promotion to Saudi Arabia's top division.
Delmain Faver: So, how did you decide on the mammoth project of Al Ahli Jeddah for coach Pitso Mosimane?
Moira Tlhagale: Obviously, we left Al Ahly, right? The key thing is that we already know where we want to be, what we want to do generally right now, but when anything happens right now, I sit with the whole team, coach Pitso, Kabelo (Rangoaga), Musi (Matlaba), Kyle (Solomons) and Maahier (Davids), who has just joined. We've been having these conversations because we are where we are now, to say what's next? But my job is to make sure that I meet the mandate. A lot of people will call me, but I need to make sure that I've ticked all the boxes that they want to tick. The one key thing that comes out of our conversations all the time is that it has to be a project. Most of the jobs that coach Pitso has taken have been projects. If you look when he went to SuperSport (United), he was still a rookie coach, but if you think about it, he was even a scout, then an assistant, then he became a coach for almost seven years there. And a team that was number 14 became (number) two or three for the time that he was there. I think he had left a good foundation where Gavin Hunt ended up winning a treble of the league. I mean, we must give Gavin the credit, he's a very good coach himself, but I don't want us to not recognise that this was a team that was young. The next thing… I mean, you would know better. Do research of what happened from the time he joined Bafana to the time he left. As much as there was a lot of noise of him being fired, whether it is "you are useless" or whatever, it's ok. But you look at the numbers of where he took the team. I think we even became top 10 in Africa at the time, and we came up also in the world, I think, top 50, if I'm not mistaken. So, if you look at that, it was a project. It was a sad story for him that he left before he was ready to leave, but it is a project that we just believed could have gotten better. Also not forgetting that we are saying that the biggest challenge is development of soccer and hence we are starting this Pitso Mosimane Soccer Schools. We are taking children that are seven years old and we are saying judge us in the next 10 years. We are taking U7 kids, in the next 10 years they will be 17 – judge us with that group of kids. (Mamelodi) Sundowns had seven years of not winning anything and then he took over – I mean, we all know what happened with Sundowns. I think with the Al Ahly story, it was also a project, but they approached us because remember, they were embarrassed in their history with a 5-0 (defeat), and who is the person who we believe understands the African market better than anybody?
DF: No prizes for guessing!
MT: That's why I think they approached us. They had seven years also of not winning the Champions League and we got two Champions Leagues in 10 months. We were approached by a lot of different teams. Others we said no (to) because it made no sense in terms of a project. We need a project and a project is something that he always says he wants to leave the jersey in a better space than he got it, not in the worst case. So, I think that this is the driving motto in anything that he does. With this team, it's like one of the top three teams in South Africa being relegated. We saw it as a very good project and for me as the agent, it is also to strategize (on) what makes sense, where, and so, one, we need to move as Africans to the bigger part of the world, right? Unfortunately, you have to have a strategy on how you move because you can't just wake up and then get called by Chelsea. It doesn't matter what the numbers are saying, it's not easy. A lot of things happened because of relationships also, you know. So, with us not having those relationships, I think what will push coach Pitso and his team is really their work. Their work must speak so loud. Some coaches don't have to speak loud, their work must speak louder than anything for them to be identified. My strategy was then moving out of Africa. I mean, I was open for any continent, and when this opportunity came, obviously it was like, "Whoa, manager, are you sure you want us to go to the First Division?" And I sold the project, (told them) we are going into a new continent, the Asian continent, we are taking a big team that has been embarrassed really. I also gave them clips from the team to show them as a team to analyse, but they could also say yes, it's something we believe (we can take on) with what we have. They looked and saw this one has got potential, they've got wrong decisions that they are making, it's something that we can work on. So, it was well thought through. I mean, he was known because when he was at Al Ahly, Egypt, he played in the Club World Cup with some Asian teams and he did very well against them. And he has played a lot in Qatar and in UAE, so they know him. It's one thing to know somebody who is basically taking a very good team, you must understand all the good players left this team because it's gone down. So, let's see what the next project is. I don't really have an answer yet. Watch the space.
DF: You have now negotiated three big contracts on behalf of the coach. Which of these were the most complicated for you to work around?
MT: I don't think I can say any one, in particular. I think they all came with their different challenges and different challenges is obviously… I'm on this side negotiating for my team and there's another person negotiating on behalf of the team – it can get really heated. You know, it can get really, really bad. But in all that, I always have to remind myself of the mandate having told them that there is this opportunity and they have a definite 'yes' answer. So, in the negotiations, as much as I push for their own advantage and for the right type of terms, I must understand that the bigger picture is the project. So, I think in all of them, the one common thing is that they all wanted him to be with them. I think, you know, it's not as if I'm selling somebody who the team says, "Oh no, we don't want that person, but let's see." The issue of them wanting him to be their coach was not an issue, the issue was just about the terms and when that has been passed, I think it's easy. It's not like, "We want him, but we've got three other options" – no, we want him, he's our number one option and let's make it work somehow. And just understanding that it's, sort of, a give-and-take (situation). But I think one of the key things that I've found is to ensure that we all come out with an understanding that our coaches need to get exactly the same as the European coaches with context. I won't say if he has to go and coach in any African country he must get what (Jose) Mourinho is getting, right? But it has to be, sort of, balanced in terms of what Africa pays. I do a lot of research in terms of what other coaches have been paid in South Africa and now another South African comes, or even outside, what they want to pay. And that's what I fight about a lot. That it's not necessarily where the person comes from, it's about the level of stress and quality that they are gonna give and the fact that they are operating at that level. So, yeah, I think I would say they were all difficult with their own challenges. I would never say any one was easy. The Saudi one, by the way, I had to also inform the coaches to understand that we are dealing with a First Division team, so therefore we can't expect everything that we are getting, right? People must not think it's all about millions in Saudi. It's also, again… where are you? Where are you coaching? You can't be an NFD coach and expect to get a Premier League salary. I mean, I think it's different budgets for them. So, there they did accept to take a cut on the basis that the fundamental driver was the project.
DF: How different is it working with coach Pitso your husband and coach Pitso your client and how do you separate the two? And have you ever been in a situation where the two of you had to find common ground on a decision where you had opposing views?
MT: So, coach Pitso, I think, has got two personalities and thank God, coach Pitso the husband and coach Pitso the client is the same personality. Coach Pitso, that coaches on the pitch, I don't know him, ha, ha. I mean, I don't know who that guy is, sorry! I don't know him. So, these two, the client and the husband, is the same person. The coach on the pitch, I don't know, but I always obviously speak to the client and thank God because this one I never get to speak to him until that is done, then I ask him as his manager, "Aowa, did you have to behave like that… there or answer like that?" I mean, we've had those discussions and he says, "But you don't understand. You come out of the pitch, you're all hyped up and after a lot of stress, and then the whistle blows and the mic is in your face. So, there is no time to cool off." So, we agreed at some point that then it means when that whistle blows, you must remember to be abnormal. To not be yourself, So, that must be the reminder. I think towards the end in the PSL, it helped a lot because you know sometimes, he would say, "I don't want to talk." I think the whole notion of family business is something that is just a common exercise that a lot of people do, and I think we've seen a lot of family businesses that have been very big and have done very well, so I don't think it gets in-between too much. I think what I try to do though is to have, sort of … I'm more structured like that. There's time to talk, work, and time to not.
Advice To Aspiring Female Agents
"I run multiple companies, so I look at it as being in business, not as being a female in sport. I mean, people would also have always said, 'You are a woman in construction, which is also not really popular with ladies.' During the World Cup, all the meetings that I went to around all the cities with the consultants team, I don't remember (seeing) a lady. There was an architect in Rustenburg that I liked. If ever (there were any), there was 10% of us. So, for me, it's not about being a woman in sports, it's about being in business and just making sure that you do your best all the time. Excellence in your work is very important. In my office, we thrive on that, on making sure that we come up with ideas that are outside the box and that we follow through with whatever that we do, and we try and perfect what we do, and professionally so. Also, (they must) be professional and be excellent in whatever they do. I don't think there's just a space of being an agent, I think there's just other spaces that people can be in, in sports."
