So well-travelled is Floyd Mogale that he knows South African football like the palm of his hand. Despite having had several stints as head coach in the PSL, his forte is development. In this interview, Soccer Laduma's Delmain Faver recently speaks to the former Mamelodi Sundowns man, who pulls no punches in delivering his thoughts on the state of football in the country. Somewhat on the periphery at present, while weighing up options for his next move, the coach nicknamed "Mourinho" tells it like he sees it here. Having worked as a scout and developed some of the country's best players, he reveals where he thinks the junior national teams are getting it wrong and how South African football can redeem itself from what he regards as a quagmire.
Delmain Faver: Coach, what are you up to these days?
Floyd Mogale: It's funny that you ask me that question. I don't know what can I say. I don't want to be controversial anymore, you know. I just make peace with the people. Some are telling me I'm expensive or I can't handle it, but I tell it the way it is. I don't wanna sugar-coat things. We're sugar-coating things in the country, that is why we are in trouble and I was glad that I was listening to the Technical Director, Walter Steenbok, telling the PSL straight. These are the things that people don't want to hear about development. Our structures are not properly done. But to answer your question, my brother, I am currently at home.
DF: Where do you think we are getting it wrong?
FM: School football is not there, it doesn't exist. It's non-existent and there was too many mushrooming academies. I call them mushrooming academies. You look at the amount of work that has been done there, we don't have youth coaches there because youth coaching, you need specialised people, not just anybody who wants to coach and then takes two balls and two bibs and makes the boys run there. There are factors that people must consider when developing a player – the social part, mental part of it, and there's more about it. And it's even worse now, we are competing with entertainment now. There's a lot of competition in football now, it's no longer like before because our kids are not playing football at school level. When I grew up, we used to have a PT (physical training) programme, where we would go out and play football for something like 30 to 35 minutes every day in a week, but now it doesn't happen. Also, if you look at school football, it is dead, you know, and to be honest, I thought about it yesterday. I was thinking to myself and saying… I was listening to the Minister of Sport (Zizi Kodwa) saying he is going to do this and that, (but) we don't have expertise in the country. The minister must get the people that know about these things. As much as he is the head of sports and recreation in the country, he must get the advisers – football advisers, rugby advisers, tennis advisers. Because if you go to the township, currently there are no tennis courts, they've been vandalized. Some have been used to build shacks on them… you know what's happening in the country. So, in football, we don't even have a space for the boys to play in the street, nothing. What is also influencing that, we've also got PlayStation, our boys are competing with PlayStation. They are on the couch. My son is in his room for eight hours playing PlayStation. We've got Wi-Fi at home, so we can download and google and do all this nonsense. Physically, he's not doing anything.
DF: A sad state of affairs.
FM: And at school, we're not even encouraging that the boys must play football. But how would the boys play football if the same teacher that is doing physical science or science or math is expected to be teaching football? He is not an expert when it comes to development of football, you understand? Employ former professionals and proper development coaches, youth specialized coaches to the schools throughout the country. After school, say, give them one hour or two, let those boys go through development. Because as much as Patrice Motsepe is trying to put his resources and money in there, that money is going to be wasted because you are pumping it at school, where there's no coaches that will teach those boys. When I grew up, I used to play in LFA (Local Football Association). The late Shakes Kungwane, Brian Baloyi and a couple players made it to the professional level because they were identified at school level, but now at school level there is nothing. My passion about development is, I don't have a problem with coaches getting qualified. Yes, it's a thing that coaches must get qualified, but you've got to have the right people at the grassroots level to develop the youngsters. To be honest with you, me and you, my brother… I'm not coming from the background of teaching and if you look at it now, the people who are doing well as coaches are teachers. You know why? They are coming from the background where they've been taught how to do the presentation on the laptop and all those things and the proper coaches are on the ground because they can't handle computers and blah, blah, blah, blah. They are side-lined, and those are the people that will help the country.
DF: Hmmm…
FM: For example, if you know Kaizer Chiefs, we used to have Mahlubi (Mehlomakhulu) – that guy was a genius when it comes to spotting talent. He told us about Jabu Pule (now Mahlangu), Michael Nkambule, Junior Khanye. He told us about a number of good players in Daveyton, but now, we are not looking after our heritage. We are in big trouble. The (national) U16s were hammered in Poland, but I didn't want to comment because one of the coaches (Zipho Dlangalala) is my former colleague at (Mamelodi) Sundowns. I kept quiet. The criteria of selection is wrong in the country, it doesn't exist. We just select because this one knows that one, because the biggest influence in the country are the agents! We are getting so much influence as coaches from the agents and the agents are not here for the love of the game, they are here for the love of their pockets. The agents would tell us about this boy and that boy when they are not good, but because we are also lazy, including myself… A youth coach is everywhere, every corner of the street, whether it's in Thohoyandou (or wherever). Not where there's television, limelight and cameras, no! That's where you identify those players. You must go to the area where the late Lesley Manyathela comes from in Musina. Nobody will go to Musina, and the kind of players that you identify in that area are called crossbreeds in development because they are half-South Africans and half-Mozambicans and they are strong, they are quick and they can score. Because we are in the border when we go to that area, we are in the border of South Africa and Mozambique. That's where players like (Erick) Mathoho come from.
DF: Is it all doom and gloom? Sundowns have just promoted 16-year-old Siyabonga Mabena. Surely there's hope.
FM: Let me stop you there. He comes from the School of Excellence, he doesn't come from Sundowns. You see, if somebody said they developed a player who's 12 years (old), I'll give you a hand and you can take credit for it. You can't bring somebody (who's) 16 years and you say you've developed him and start making a noise, no. That is why Walter Steenbok was hammering them and saying they didn't want to release him to the national team because suddenly he is in the national team because he is coming from Sundowns. But what I'm saying is that youth development has got to do with grassroots football. You identify players when they're six, seven, eight, nine, 10. I grew up at Wits Marks Park, we used to have kids at the age of seven years, eight years, nine years running for fun. Gareth Devine is one of them. In South Africa, we say we develop a player who is 18. At that age, he's supposed to be an international.
DF: Go on…
FM: Yes, the School of Excellence are doing a very, very good job because what I like about the School of Excellence is that they get them young and their philosophy is not more about winning because our structures in our clubs, the emphasis is too much on winning trophies. At the School of Excellence, it's about technique, it's about playing the game because the game is the best teacher. It's about ball mastering and then when they reach 15 or 16, it's when you start slowly introducing them to competition level. At other clubs, small kids are introduced to competition and their parents are standing on the line and screaming, which means we are also introducing them to cheating by referees. Those boys must be developed, and you know even if they lose, it's fine and also at that age, we're not even worried about the positions. The boy, by the time he's 18, will decide he is a right back. I'll tell you the reason why. In 2001, I was at Kaizer Chiefs. I was working with the late Ryder Mofokeng, Ace Ntsoelengoe and Doctor Khumalo, Terror Sephooa, Ntsie Maphike. It should be on record that Itumeleng Khune came to Kaizer Chiefs as a striker. We were training at St Barnabas and we chased him (away). We said, "This one is wasting time." You must know when you call trials at a team like Chiefs, you'll have thousands coming, so it was full. We had trials the whole weekend and were tired. After we chased Khune, he came again the following day, tried again with a different jersey as a winger and we chased him away again. Then suddenly, after the second day, he came again. He was in goals. We didn't even realize (it was) him because we see thousands of players a day. He was fantastic in goals. This was in 2001. He was saving everything. He was jumping, saving and commanding, and I was talking there with Ryder, Ace and Terror and we were saying, "That goalkeeper looks promising", not knowing that it's the same guy we chased away three times. Then we put him on our database, and we called him. He said, "Coach, remember you chased me away? I was wearing a maroon T-shirt as a striker." We were laughing because now Khune is a household name.
DF: What are the chances of you returning to your first love, development?
FM: If I had the money, I would start my own development because sometimes working for somebody, you get frustrated because of the salary, doing things that they want, how it should be done. Development is my passion. Every successful country, they respect the development coaches – Germans, the Brazilians, the Spanish. If you talk to them, they'll tell you they've got a high, high respect for their development coaches because once you get it right at the grassroots level, then Bafana Bafana and all this stuff won't be problem. Currently, we are struggling as a nation to even qualify for Afcon. We've qualified, yeah, but it's not convincing. We qualified (for big tournaments in the past) because we were hosting. We should be in Africa. With the resources we've got, we are supposed to be a country that every year you qualify for Afcon, Olympics and the World Cup because the structures of development are (supposed to be) done properly and the players are developed. But also at development level, people don't want to pay their coaches proper salaries. This is why everybody wants to take a short-cut quick. Let me go to the PSL and coach!
